I would use them with at least a small amount of test, and I would limit your oral tren to 3 wks. Its some harsh stuff on your organs and sides can be intense. Because of its intense nature, I would see how you respond, by start out with 500mcg and after about 10 days, if you feel you still want to go up, go from there, no higher than 750mcg. I started with 250mcg of oral tren by geneza, taking nothing else accept test and at that dose, felt it's effect. After a wk, I moved to 500mcg. That seemed to be a decent dose. When I went to 750mcg, I became very sensitive to side effects. One of the worst was dealing with the hot temps of summer. It was as if my body couldn't adjust to the heat around me. Summer or winter, be sure to drink plenty of water to keep yourself hydrated and keep your body flushed.
Though it is very harsh, I will say, it gives fast results, as far as increasing fat loss and hardening up.