as you probably know, when you come off something like dbol, you're likely to drop 10 lbs in a couple wks. of course that was all water. but the muscle you gained from it was real. what people mean by permanent is that what you see, is much closer to what you get. if you're running 4-10iu, you will lose some water weight after you come off, but what you see is a lot closer to what you get. that being said, what is "permanent" in this life lol? nothing. everything is tentative. how much of the muscle you keep is going to depend on a lot of factors, just like the muscle you gained on dbol or creatine or anything else. how close you are to your genetic potential, what your diet is like, ect. in the end, if you gain 10 lbs on hgh you are probably going to keep a lot more of that than if you gained 10 lbs on dbol. how much will depend on you!