Tren actually is not a great drug for size. But none the less, you can have a great cycle without tren achieving a hard dry vascular look. I have worked with many natural guys that have achieved all these things. The foundation is the diet. Then add the drugs on top of that and you will take it further. But most people have never seen what diet can truly do. Drugs like masteron and winstrol will give you a very gnarly look. These are what I would suggest. You need to diet long enough to get really lean. So I’m thinking a 16 wk cycle with test as the base along with clen, maybe t3 if needed. Then Masteron Prop or E for the last 8- 10 wks at 300mg EW at the low end. 700mg EW for someone very experienced. Then for the last 4 wks, winstrol at 50mg ED. If you are in shape, you will look crazy with these 2 drugs